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Post by Admin on Mar 8, 2016 3:31:39 GMT
#1.4 MAGIC AND SCIENCE: ARE THEY COMPATIBLE IN D&D?by James M. Ward June 1976 Jim's down at GaryCon, right now, so he's probably too busy to answer this question, a question that will be revisited later on in AD&D, in Dragon 114, and, famously, in S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. In the spirit of the article, just for discussion, I'll take the philosophical position that AD&D is a science-fiction RPG. Tech Level 0, Prespos of The Dying Earth
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Post by jamerowe1 on Jun 7, 2016 13:59:12 GMT
I see no reason it can't include sci-fi.
After all, Paizo included sci-fi in its Pathfinder, and is making Starfinder.
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Post by Malcadon on Jun 7, 2016 19:33:40 GMT
I have seen games that generally discourage setting form mixing magic and science, where spells and magic items have no effect in a high-tech world, and electronic devices are de-energized in a magical world, but I strongly disagree. I view D&D "magic" as a form of science so advanced, that it comes off as magical, even in a modern or high-tech world, if not recognized as a product of science in the latter. In the Pulp Era, scifi and fantasy shared the same tent and was seen as the same genre. Then in the Novel Era, some scifi writers wanted their stories to be taken seriously, and thus wrote "hard science" fiction, while everything else that were once published with their stories were just "fantasy." So yeah, I have no issue getting chocolate mixed in my peanut butter!
Plus, D&D from the get-go — in the pages of OD&D — used to casually throw around sci-fi elements into the game. As anyone who knows about the "Vancian" spell-casting system would know its was based on Jack Vance's Dying Earth saga. They made scattered references to the Barsoom setting (from A Princess of Mars) in OD&D, and they made note of "Robots, Golems, Androids" in the list of monsters. The Displacer Beasts are based on the Coeurl form A. E. van Vogt's Black Destroyer and The Voyage of the Space Beagle. Hell the 3e MM added the Girallon — white, four-armed gorillas — that seems to be based on Barsoomian White Apes, so they are still at it! And who knows what "magic" items were based on some sci-fi gizmo?!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2016 0:40:47 GMT
Depends on the physical factor of your plane, regarding MotP scales.
Magic is power centred in the core, in D&D terms. Science as I understand it in your references amounts to push-button warfare disseminated to whatever.
Magic is only fully functional IMC if practiced the proper way-by hermits. Can't get the mojo flowin' without being an enlightened being, so most wizards would by requisite be adverse to harnessing the means of production.
Other than that, I do have technology.
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Post by dragonspipe on Aug 18, 2016 20:46:26 GMT
Depends on if the M-U masturbates.
Overall, yes. The "forgetting" of spells perhaps corresponds to some kind of quasi science with quantum mechanics. A spell, when memorized, is a particle, and when cast, becomes a wave. Or something. Gods and Goddesses could be enormous, remote power sources - machines, a la Star Trek, that were once conscious carbon beings. The power is transferred through the quantum equations of the spells / prayers.
Ultimately it is a setting question. I like techno-wizardry and the genre mashing.
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Post by Rystellin on Aug 24, 2016 14:56:31 GMT
This is where you create a cyborg-warlock. He has the magical powers given to him by his patron, and the technological advances of the material world. Honestly, I just think it would be cool to have a plasma cannon/ hydraulic claw arm on one side, and cast FIREBALL from the other. D20Modern and D20Future rules are awesome, if not a little cumbersome, for doing cybernetics. Slap that on a psychic-using being, or import a class from D&D, and you have a truly considerable character with much utility. Plus, it doesn't say he couldn't pick up a sword or bow too.... PS, while I don't completely agree with this, I do think it is partly correct. I think a Medieval Fantasy is perfectly fine on its own, but Science conflicting or uniting with Magic makes for a much more interesting world.
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Post by Malcadon on Sept 2, 2016 13:12:40 GMT
Is Gamma World D&D with magic-like scifi elements, or is D&D Gamma World with scifi-like magical elements?
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Post by Rystellin on Sept 4, 2016 3:57:10 GMT
I couldn't say, i know nothing of Gamma World
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Post by Malcadon on Sept 4, 2016 9:10:36 GMT
I couldn't say, i know nothing of Gamma World Gamma World is were you take a futuristic utopia with lots of Jetsonian technology, then nuke the ever-loving shit out of it, and populate the ruins with cartoonishly weird-looking mutant people and creatures, while all playing out like some drug-induced Jack Kirby comic. This games is not your gritty, dust-covered Mad Max or Fallout setting. People are primitives; the landscape is way too alien; and characters are larger-than-life pulp (anti)heroes. Any notion of "game-balance" falls out the window with all the (potentially powerful and/or hazardous) high-tech toys laying around and with disproportionate levels of (powerful and/or crippling) mutations. All and all, it is crazy and gonzo, while still being deadly and brutal, but no less fun, if you have the right people who embrace such insanity! Rule wise, it plays like OD&D, but without classes, saving throws or alignment, and just like OD&D, feels patchy and experimental in most cases (which is a good or bad thing, based on how you like to run games). As the game is not dependent on classes and levels, characters start off with a hit point total that changes little in a campaign. PC Hit Dice is equal their Constitution: Roll 1d6 per point of CON, with 37 hp being average. Despite the high starting HP, death still comes way too easily to characters with careless players. Instead of saving throws, players rolled poison and radiation resistances based on an intensity score vs Constitution. In first edition, the leveling system grants ether an Attribute boost or a combat bonus (to-hit or melee damage) per level, but for the most part, it was an unessential element that was shoehorned in. In second edition, it also served as a measure social status and notoriety. Mutant characters are granted random or GM-selected mutations. Weapon Class (a system that dated back to the old Chainmail rules) is used in conjunction with Armor Class. There are plenty of major similarities to D&D with combat, but their lots of little changes here and there. Figuring out found technology is time-consuming, and filled with danger (much like giving an ape a loaded gun). The method used in the games for determining found technology are a set of flow-charts. Oh, and the art reflects well the strangeness of the setting. This is from the Referee Screen:
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Post by jamerowe1 on Sept 18, 2016 19:57:25 GMT
This is where you create a cyborg-warlock. He has the magical powers given to him by his patron, and the technological advances of the material world. Honestly, I just think it would be cool to have a plasma cannon/ hydraulic claw arm on one side, and cast FIREBALL from the other. D20Modern and D20Future rules are awesome, if not a little cumbersome, for doing cybernetics. Slap that on a psychic-using being, or import a class from D&D, and you have a truly considerable character with much utility. Plus, it doesn't say he couldn't pick up a sword or bow too.... PS, while I don't completely agree with this, I do think it is partly correct. I think a Medieval Fantasy is perfectly fine on its own, but Science conflicting or uniting with Magic makes for a much more interesting world. So Mr. Kaku, what's wrong with stories about heroism? There should be heroic scientists and doctors also!
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Post by Malcadon on Sept 18, 2016 22:24:23 GMT
Funny thing about that Prof. Kaku quote is that "hard" science fiction writers tend to get so caught-up in their own asses about technical matters, while ignoring the human side of things, that they can easily become as thrilling as reading an old college textbook. Even if the "science" is fantastic as hell, it means little if the characters and drama are not relatable to the readers. The technical stuff should be the spice of a story; not the meat.
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Post by jamerowe1 on Sept 20, 2016 19:41:30 GMT
That makes more sense. I think my issue is with the phrasing of that picture.
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