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Post by seekerofshadowlight on Oct 15, 2014 22:48:58 GMT
You read that right. Orks are often shown as savage race who raid and loot and are more or less just there to be bad guys for low end pC's to go kill. But as I ponder a world without humans and a world where orcs have civilized themselves and made nations and city states and trade I wonder just what ork culture would be like and how that changes from human culture.
Would they still value strength and endurance? If so how would this translate? Would duels be common? Would trail by combat be a thing? would villages hold spouts and endurance theme festivals? How would the orc families be, how would they view things unlike humans?
How do you think orc civilization would evolve?
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Post by mullmann on Oct 15, 2014 23:05:38 GMT
The Treaty of Lausanne was really the beginning of the end. Traitorous bastards should never have given in and signed that fucking thing
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Post by seekerofshadowlight on Oct 15, 2014 23:36:40 GMT
So..you think they are swiss
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Post by mullmann on Oct 16, 2014 1:55:32 GMT
Sorry I posted this to wrong forum board. Please disregard
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Post by Admin on Oct 16, 2014 15:46:46 GMT
N4 Treasure Hunt has 'civilized' orcs in it, or, at least, orcs more civilized than the norm. I think they were called the Hak-kubra, and they were orc pirates.
As far as an orc civilization goes, seeing that they are LE in AD&D, I can imagine a brutal totalitarian state, very war-like.
Also, note that orcish intelligence isn't very far behind the human average.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 16:03:05 GMT
I think brutal civilization fits the D&D orcs very well, but our view on orcs has gotten so coloured by the Green Skinned Football Hooligans of Warhammer, that even we oldtime D&D folks tend to forget that as Pres said, they are LE in AD&D. Heck, even Greyhawk got a bona-fide Empire of orcs in Pomarj after the Wars.
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Post by seekerofshadowlight on Oct 16, 2014 18:41:20 GMT
ORc Int depends on which edition you use as a base. On Avg pretty much any of the last 3 editions they are as smart as humans. They just seem to be stuck in an earlier stage of civilization development. Mostly they are stuck this way to give players badguys to fight at low end. 2e also had the Scro of spelljammer, which were very organized and militant.
What I am pondering is taking off the artificial binders that always stop orcs from being anything more than barbarians. They have the minds to be as advanced as anyone else, they are no dumber than any of the "demi-human" races and often far outnumber them. They breed as fast as humans do. Its simply they are given artificial breaks that really make little sense if you start to really sit and think about them.
Now what do we know about orcs? Well, they are strong, tough and prone to violence and more or less act like our idea of primitive cave men or early man. I think one way you could play this up going forward from the "hunter gather" stage is that they are a very emotional race, rage, hate, love , joy its all so close to the surface. Its simply within the normal limits we see rage, hate and violence because they have been stopped at that stage.
I do not think Orc need or even will be "Evil" any more than humans are "evil" after all orcs do nothing worse than human barbarians do now do they?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 18:59:01 GMT
Well... Like you say, orcs and humans are quite much the same if we take out the tropes associated with them - either the objectively evil servants of the Dark Lord idea of Tolkien or the football hooligans of Warhammer. But things usually get reverted back to one of of the base orcish tropes. All the races stay close to their (usually Tolkienian - the hooligan orc is one of the very few that has become really viable in mainstream) tropes too. Of course stuff like Dark Sun give them a twist (and DS got rid of the orcs, probably cause they didn't have an idea on how to twist their gimmick in a cool way), but fantasy is so heavily trope based the twists are quite gimmicky - OUR elves are different, afterall. What would you really seek from an civilized orc? We've seen them be organized, up to empire level - in mainstream D&D. Poetry? Peaceful commerce? Philosophy? At what point will the become nothing but ugly humans? Why don't orcs usually get around becoming more civilized, you might ask? Adventurers kill them faster than they can build up a true civilization  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 19:01:22 GMT
Okay, I think I'm not really talking about the same thing as you, I'm going deep meta and you were more asking IF orcs got around gettin civil - how would they be.
Right?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 19:17:38 GMT
N4 Treasure Hunt has 'civilized' orcs in it, or, at least, orcs more civilized than the norm. I think they were called the Hak-kubra, and they were orc pirates. As far as an orc civilization goes, seeing that they are LE in AD&D, I can imagine a brutal totalitarian state, very war-like. Also, note that orcish intelligence isn't very far behind the human average. Datmodulesawesome. Seeker, are you implying that tech level=intelligence?  I'd just crib the half-orc's description that's often used (like to make show-off fits of altruism, etc.), slap a giant-helmet culture atop their heads, double what's said about half-orcs, and voila! Civilized Orc culture. Also, LOL..." Adventurers kill them faster than they can build up a true civilization" -Sauna |
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Post by seekerofshadowlight on Oct 16, 2014 19:33:52 GMT
@king,
If you look at in workshop you will see my world without man thread. There are no humans or really another other races of importance at the time. Allowing them to civilize and have a culture other than "hulk smash and take your stuff!" no more makes them "just ugly humans" than elves, dwraves and halfings are just funny looking humans. And yeah you are right in what I am asking. I know meta why they are never changed, because they are monsters meant to die and give xp and little more.
& Ettin,
tech is the result of need or want. Orcs in D&D have just been frozen from that for no real reason, they have been stopped for pure gamiest reasons. I am talking about removing those artificial restrictions.
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Post by Lord Huthor on Oct 17, 2014 11:31:18 GMT
I think brutal civilization fits the D&D orcs very well, but our view on orcs has gotten so coloured by the Green Skinned Football Hooligans of Warhammer, that even we oldtime D&D folks tend to forget that as Pres said, they are LE in AD&D. Heck, even Greyhawk got a bona-fide Empire of orcs in Pomarj after the Wars. I can't remember exactly where I saw it, might have been something for WHRPG or the table-top game, but there was this one boxed line: "Ere we go, ere we go, ere we go!" Orkish Battle Cry Made me laugh my ass off. I could almost see the scarves and beanies. |
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